Posts by cognizant dissident

I'm beginning to think you're not even reading your own posts, dear CD (peace to you!)... as, clearly, not all were addressed to dear LL, Six, or Outlaw...

The ones addressing the issue of who should be allowed to post monologues and post dissenting opinions were clearly addressed to LL, Six, or Outlaw. My posts addressing your thinly veiled insults of my reading comprehension were clearly addressed to YOU, dear Shelby.

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

I think NVL's posts are always keeping within the "spirit" of the thread topic. I really believe the offense is taken because he is bang on in his delivery and sometimes the truth hurts. We have two choices. Get offended, or laugh at ourselves and see the "truth" in the comedy.

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

Alternatively, mocking the poster... and/or his/her God... and/or Lord... is not the same as mocking the idea.

Let's keep it real, dear one...

LOL! But Shelby, my dear, "God" is only an idea, and a bad one at that.

As you brought up the war on the atheist thread, I will note that no one suggested you should not be able to post your dissenting view there, did they?

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

I'm sorry, dear CD (again, peace to you!), but you appear to assume that I am the one who took issue with what others wish to post... even to me. If so, where in the WORLD did you get that idea? Oh, yes, that's right... from not reading, again.

Shelby, I very clearly addressed my posts to Lady Lee, SixofNine and Outlaw. I don't know where in the WORLD you got the idea I was assuming you were the one who took issues with what others wish to post to you...perhaps from not reading again? Or, pehaps your Lord is misdirecting you once again?

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

Outlaw: I understand and respect and admire your desire to protect your friend.

I'm interested in the greater issue of protecting all poster's rights to post dissenting viewpoints. While this subject has gone on for a painfully long time, and I lost patience with the original subject days ago, another issue has been raised.

As long as one poster is allowed to repeatedly post very long monologues that contain very strange ideas, then other posters should be allowed to repeatedly post rebuttals which refute those ideas. Mocking the idea is not the same as mocking the poster. There is value in mocking bad ideas. That is how intellectual progress is made. Many on JWD have trouble making that distinction. Ironically, they have no trouble understanding it when it come to mocking the WTBTS, but cannot apply it to other bad ideas they may possess.

If NVL must stop his parody of Shelby's preaching, then, in fairness, Shelby must stop her "preaching". If Shelby is too emotionally fragile to have her ideas challenged, then she should not be posting them here. If she is not, then she should receive no special quarter. I have lost count of how many times Shelby has accused NVL of being a drunk. This is a personal attack. On the other hand, I see NVL attacking Shelby's arguments and parodying them.

Do we have double standards for some posters on JWD or not?

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

Seriously. I am not making fun or trying to belittle. I really thought you had some objectivity. I am now thinking that you really are just one who jumps on bandwagons, rather than really listening (okay, reading) what one posts and having an independent view. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing quite a lot, Shelby but I will leave you to figure out what that is. Perhaps your Lord will assist you. Rest assured, I'm not dependent on your views, nor will I be jumping on your bandwagon.

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

You are correct, Shelby, that keeping it going only directs more attention to you. That's why I've stopped responding to your arguments.

However, I pointed out very clearly, in my post, the valid reasons why some may continue to respond to you. As long as you continue to post ideas that some view as delusional and/or harmful, there will be some who feel it necessary to respond and expose those ideas. They provide a check and a balance that I think can be very useful in society.

We all know what happens when there is no dissenting viewpoint allowed at the Kingdom Hall. We all know what happens when opposing political ideologies are silenced. We all know what happens socially when no one questions the status quo.

The underlying principle is that this a "discussion". This is not a forum for posters who wish to post unchallenged monologues. You can start a blog for that if that's what you wish.

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

And, if she is permitted to post as if God speaks through her, then NVL should be able to do the same, parody or not. After all, can any of us prove that God does not speak through NVL?

There cannot be two standards for different posters.

198

Why It Matters...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

well, the predecessor thread really invoked some emotions, didn't it?

good and bad.

cognizant dissident

With all due respect to you Lady Lee (and I do respect your opinions), as you yourself pointed out, Shelby uses her writings as a not very subtle, passive-aggressive way of putting others down and insulting them.

In my opinion, it is not bashing her to point this out. It is not bashing her to disagree with her ideas. If some people on this forum see a danger in her ideas/delusions and feel a need to expose them to the light of day, how is that any less valid than exposing the dangerous delusions in the WTBTS?

Many here have tried to do this in a reasonable and respectful way only to be met with the frustrating wall of intellectual dishonesty. I personally gave up because I believe it is not fully intentional but is a mental health issue. Others choose to continue using satire and parody to point out the delusional ideas because they see a danger in others following Shelby and hope to prevent that. There is validity to both viewpoints, I think.

There is a long standing and respected tradition of writers using humor, satire and parody to make fun of and point out bad ideas, political, religious and social. This provides a valuable check in society, I believe. It prevents the lemmings who may be teetering on the edge of the cliff from falling over.

If Shelby is mentally ill and needs special protection from the barbs of wit aimed at her ideas, as SixofNine suggests, she should not be allowed to post here in one-sided delusional rants that influence the weak-minded. If she is a mature adult, as we all are, and should be able to freely express her thoughts and opinions here, then her thoughts and ideas should not be specially protected from the dissenting viewpoints. She puts them out there, she should be able to defend them.

Satire and parody usually only offends those who see themselves in it. NVL has not insulted or attacked Shelby directly or personally as she has him. He is attacking her ideas and his only crime is being funny and dead on in his delivery.

As Sam Harris said (paraphrasing): I believe in attacking bad ideas wherever I find them.